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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 16:40:53 GMT -5
None of this is addressing some of the fundamental issues:
1) Being a federation requires being a governing body of some sort (both the trope and the literal definition), which requires substantial manpower even if the member states are functionally self-governing. Where would this manpower come from? Recruitment from member states. How many worlds are there with a wide enough degree of awareness that would be willing to join (so, ruling out Disgaea because they already know)? Extremely few. So, as a multiversal organisation providing relief and the like? Not so functional.
2) Absolutely no explanation has been given for why, when sending people into a combat zone, they wouldn't be as well-outfitted as humanly possible, given the resources you've implied. Hell, even the thing you suggested for non-combat purposes is ludicrously dangerous (and the Titanic is about 45,000 tons, for reference). And we've all agreed that's bad for creativity.
3) If it's a large organisation, there is no reason to send raw recruits and those without combat powers into fate-of-reality level conflicts, regardless of whether they're player characters. This is really an issue for some characters people have been thinking of putting into it (Anno's thinking about putting someone in who's 13, Magnum has a revolver as her sole offensive capability).
Why not just... leave it as it is, size-wise, or similar and have the tech data incorrectly encoded/corrupted/lost for some reason nearer the end of the timeskip so everyone's on a level playing field and not have it as 'relatively weak characters are vitally important despite vast factions'?
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Post by Flanker on Jul 24, 2012 17:33:57 GMT -5
I don't really see the Brotherhood remaining static size-wise (it would be extremely unusual, multiversal organisation or no), although I don't see why we couldn't have something mess up with the replication technology at some early point in the timeskip to solve the issue of having way too much resources.
As for your first point, considering how large the multiverse is, it'd be highly unlikely that we wouldn't run into a fair amount of multiverse aware universes - it's similar in some ways to the search for intelligent life; our universe is so large that it's exceedingly unlikely we wouldn't run into at least some intelligent life. Since the multiverse is so much larger, the number of multiverse aware civilisations would presumably be larger as well.
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 17:35:17 GMT -5
Challenge: how long have we been looking for extraterrestrial life? How much have we found? What's the comparative search area? Your own example shoots yourself in the foot, and those multiverse-aware people who aren't involved in this wouldn't want some nebulous foreign power showing up to protect them. >_>
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Post by Flanker on Jul 24, 2012 17:38:43 GMT -5
Ah, but it's mentioned repeatedly in previous discussions that multiversal travel is easy. I feel that would significantly speed up any search, not to mention the improved sensors that the Ha'tak seems to possess.
As for your second issue, the same way anything else gets done - diplomacy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 17:41:21 GMT -5
Smaller faction with less advanced technology.
There, it makes sense and allows for the rag-tag bunch of misfits.
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 17:42:13 GMT -5
And there's approximately twenty people searching initially, from one station, using one method, and they're not looking for something as simple as life, they're looking for life that has somehow achieved a specific level of achievement whether through magic or technology. It also cancels out.
'We don't want or need your protection' can be solved by magical timeskip diplomacy to enforce having a large organisation even though that has no practical purpose and just causes more problems? >_>
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Post by Flanker on Jul 24, 2012 17:46:18 GMT -5
When you say "smaller", what size are we talking about? I imagine that the Brotherhood's probably a medium size-ish faction, whereas WBX is a larger faction. Does that sound like a reasonable size for it? I know that's terribly vague, but I feel that figuring out what ballpark we're talking about is the best bet we have at first.
@raineh:
Not every faction's going to be disposed to think of joining up negatively. And in any case, although there will be failures there will also be successes; I never claimed that the diplomacy would be 100% successful at all times, either. Please do not put words in my mouth.
Also, I presume that there would be certain tell-tale signs that could highlight a multiverse aware universe.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 17:49:39 GMT -5
Honestly, I figured that both factions would be of similar size. And in both cases, small enough that they don't cause these plot problems, so... not counting generic minions on the bad guy's side... a hundred, maybe two-hundred actual people? Maybe less, even.
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 17:52:23 GMT -5
As I said, not MUCH larger than it is now.
No, Flank, these aren't 'factions' we're talking about, these are the populations of entire worlds that presumably have 0 reason to agree to protection by a small group.
But that's a baseless presumption, unless you're suggesting that all the various magics and techs (and Rain's cutting through reality) all operate identically, which is... bizarre. >.>
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Post by Flanker on Jul 24, 2012 17:54:56 GMT -5
That sounds fine to me, Anno. After all, no-one said that "big" necessarily means big in the conventional sense.
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Post by Addy on Jul 24, 2012 18:01:00 GMT -5
Everybody going "We don't need you, go away" is the magical timeskip anti-diplomacy. There ARE worlds that could provide resource base in trade for other-verse tech, I know at least one right off the top of my head. |
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Post by Flanker on Jul 24, 2012 18:01:43 GMT -5
^Also, this.
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Post by Psyga315 on Jul 24, 2012 18:05:44 GMT -5
I have an idea why they might not have all the resources. WBX have took their resources off.
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 18:07:42 GMT -5
I... actually suggested having WBX launch a surprise attack and basically culling the brotherhood down to its core components as a way to avoid having excesses of extraneous stuff further back.
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Post by Psyga315 on Jul 24, 2012 18:09:59 GMT -5
Would you actually believe that's what I'm planning to be the first scene for S2?
Well something like that. It's more of an ambush against a single ship...
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Post by Addy on Jul 24, 2012 18:10:54 GMT -5
Haaate that trope.
My resources have their own rein in, they may perfectly fine serve as a backup base from which to operate.
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 18:14:07 GMT -5
So long as it cuts us down to just the PC's so that utilising, say, robot vampire loli with a handgun isn't so farfetched. >.<
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Post by Flanker on Jul 24, 2012 18:16:48 GMT -5
I think that would be a bit much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 18:18:23 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd like it if the organization just starts out smaller, though this works fine too.
As long as it justifies Kuroko being used.
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Post by Addy on Jul 24, 2012 18:18:37 GMT -5
So long as it cuts us down to just the PC's so that utilising, say, robot vampire loli with a handgun isn't so farfetched. >.< I keep telling you that you can put the awesome robot vampire loli in anyway and screw the bureaucracy if there would be any >.> Kuroko can get along with her too. |
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 18:19:26 GMT -5
But that would mean tying the robot to Oleg, which I have no desire to do. There is no reason to have her connected to him other than your wanting it. >_>
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 18:24:30 GMT -5
I can't see Kuroko really getting "adopted" by anyone in particular.
Well, unless her onee-sama showed up. But that wouldn't be so much "adopted" as "attempt to molest her onee-sama", and the result would be "Kuroko gets electrocuted".
Also, um... please let's not argue with this. >.<
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Post by Addy on Jul 24, 2012 18:24:32 GMT -5
But that would mean tying the robot to Oleg, which I have no desire to do. There is no reason to have her connected to him other than your wanting it. >_> You want her in the brotherhood. There is a possibility that bureaucracy advancements would forbid her from getting in normally. I propose a way for her to get there anyway through Oleg because of his attitude to that bureaucracy. You reject that based on what? The fact that I like your character and want to help her in? |
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 18:26:30 GMT -5
Because that would tie her too closely to Oleg and since all he'd know of her is 'partly metal', not even 'is a robot', his incentive to do that is minimal. If she can't get in the Brotherhood through the front door, Team Loli. >.>
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Post by Addy on Jul 24, 2012 18:31:58 GMT -5
Because that would tie her too closely to Oleg and since all he'd know of her is 'partly metal', not even 'is a robot', his incentive to do that is minimal. If she can't get in the Brotherhood through the front door, Team Loli. >.> Nah. It's only "tied to him" if your "not tied" means "next to no interaction". |
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Post by Psyga315 on Jul 24, 2012 18:32:35 GMT -5
Alright. Some people have requested this to happen...
I'm going to make a WBX RPG soon. The RPG will be a prequel, before they met with the Brotherhood, and like Rufio, it will be like a world arc in JTTM. I'm going to write up the signups sometime this week or next week.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 18:32:56 GMT -5
Can we please not get into a heated argument over this. >.<
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 18:33:06 GMT -5
Still doesn't deal with 'no reason'. And if his reason is 'knows all this', she's not going in the Brotherhood at all because I want to try and keep that an IC secret. >.<
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Post by Addy on Jul 24, 2012 18:36:42 GMT -5
Still doesn't deal with 'no reason'. And if his reason is 'knows all this', she's not going in the Brotherhood at all because I want to try and keep that an IC secret. >.< What would be her reason for joining if not for bureaucracy? Why do you think he won't simply let her in on that? |
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Post by Rain on Jul 24, 2012 18:40:23 GMT -5
I was planning to work that out once we had the beginning of S2 more finalised.
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